Live your theology.

Tim’s gonna kill me, but I’ve really come along a lot more in time for devotions since I quit caring about politics so much. When you can involve yourself without a hint of “the solution we need will come through politics”, go for it. I can’t.

I must admit that I occasionally like Beck, but I agree with you that the call to embrace whichever god you worship without regard to the identity of that god is deplorable. And, of course, we don’t worship God to improve our lot or that of our country, but because he is worthy of worship and he has commanded us to do so. As to our role in politics as Christians in this country, I think that due to the system of government we have we as citizens function both as followers and as rulers, and so we have to fulfill our prescribed duties in both of those roles. We aren’t engaged in politics because we see that as the way to “fix” things, but because we have to fulfill our obligations to “rule” according to the right principles. BTW, I have no problem with the flag of whichever country the church is in being displayed in that church, perhaps because I haven’t given it enough thought. ;-)

Hey brother, I like your perspective. However underdeveloped your points, they summarize the situation well. I think the point of turning to God so that America will be wonderful is right on. It’s a point that suffers from the God as Santa Claus syndrome.

Thanks for the link.

Amen, Amen, and Amen.
–”The idea that we need to go back to God so that the USA will be wonderful again is rubbish. If your reason for serving Him who is Holy, Holy, Holy is to achieve a better tax code, prayer in school, & Republicans in every office… there’s a good chance you are unaware of who God is.”

I think there is another point to be made here though. The idea that creating a better tax code, allowing prayer in school and getting a republican in every office will somehow make us closer to God is also rubbish, but sadly far too prevalent in American society, and more specifically evangelical society. Many Christians can be found rallying at tea parties complaining about getting back to God, but they wouldn’t take ten seconds to tell their neighbor how to get to God.

I don’t mind them in the building per se, but when they’re up on stage next to the various Christian flags, it’s bringing the idol of nationalism into worship IMO.

Hmm… a lot to unpack there (nationalism, whether it’s an idol or not by necessity, etc.). I certainly wouldn’t want a pledge of allegiance or anything of that nature; when I think of the American flag there at all I think of it as representing something that we are holding up for prayer (our nation, its leaders, etc.) rather than something we are praying to. It’s similar to the “kirking of the tartan” idea from Scotland (the tartans representing the various families/clans in attendance). I wouldn’t mind it not being there, though its removal might cause some problems in some circles; and I would hate to be lumped in with the America-hating tendencies of the nominally-Christian churches on the liberal side.

I wouldn’t argue that nationalism is necessarily an idol, but I don’t see the need for the flag to be up front & center during the worship service. I agree we are to pray for the nation & the flag symbolizes that much easier than having a picture of the President, Governor, etc. But we’re not exclusively called to pray for our nation. So why we need the flag up there to remind us while leaving out symbolic reminders of everything else gets beyond me. Perhaps there is a church with a Nascar type feel, with every missionary banner, flags from our nation and others in need of prayer (say China) decorate the sanctuary & pulpit like ads on a Chevrolet — but I’m not familiar with it. It seems always just the national flag.

I’m not a fan of it, but I don’t think it’s an issue worth causing division over. I’m not writing any letters to the session about the flag, to be certain.

Waving the flag while ostensibly worshiping the King of Kings is a perversion.

I’m glad we’re having this discussion… Jason I’m on the same page with you here. And, now I’m offically too tired to write a coherent response… so I’ll try again tomorrow :)

It would be interesting to know what the history of having the national flag there is, especially when it started and why–that should certainly be revisited, if possible, whether the flags stay or go (I am a fan of tradition for tradition’s sake everywhere except in worship, where it is always to be opposed). If the tradition was not from earlier, perhaps it started in the WWII era,when the TBPC was very actively engaged in witnessing to the servicemen stationed around the area and traveling through, or with the emphasis on political involvement catalyzed by McIntyre in the decades after that. I have a bunch of pictures that I scanned for the 75th anniversary, but unfortunately almost none of them are of the places where the flags are in the sanctuary, and those that do are too recent to be of much help.

Recently, this thought passed through my mind – “Man, Christians from America [the USA] are going to have a seriously difficult time adjusting to life in Heaven.”

God, the great I AM, He who Was and Is and Is to Come, doesn’t reign over a democracy. We do not get a vote. We do not decide what is right and what is wrong. God, who is perfect in wisdom and knowledge, who sees all and knows all, is the King. He is the Judge. He is the final authority.

Those of us who bother to try and understand His teaching are (and rightfully should be) humbled by this. The challenge He set before us is to follow Him. To follow His example (in Jesus, the Christ). His commandment to us was given to go into the world, teaching others about Him. We share the Gospel with a world that does not know Him. The result is that He will convict mens hearts of their sin and in their convicted state He will offer them salvation. For those who accept His gift, we are commanded to continue teaching them and helping them as brothers and sisters in Christ – sinners saved by grace – so that they too can grow and follow Him.

There is NO OTHER CALLING for those who are saved by grace.

Now, I do like living in America. It’s my home. I don’t like seeing my home destroyed by fanatics consumed with greed and lust of the flesh. I grew up in a poor rural community. Through hard work and study I managed to get a college education and had raised my family from being “poor” to being “middle class” during the 1990′s. Now, thanks to more Republican attacks, I’m right back where I started twenty years ago – barely hanging on financially. I know that last statement will catch some of you off guard. You consider yourselves Republicans, you vote for and support Republican candidates. How is it this guy thinks he’s being attacked by Republicans? When you look at the last 40 years, and follow the legislation passed & who voted for or against legislation that supported a strong middle class, you find that it has been the Republicans that have done the most damage.

I think many “Christians” find themselves voting for candidates because of one or three “moral” issues and conveniently ignore the bigger picture. We vote for a candidate who is opposed to abortion, yet he votes consistently for policies that result in hundreds of thousands of deaths. I know how difficult it can be to sift through the propaganda during the election cycle. Most of us just don’t do it – we instead listen to the propaganda and pick a couple of issues that let us conveniently choose a candidate. Or worse, we vote for the person nominated by “our” party. and really know nothing about the candidate.

Our calling is to serve God. First and foremost we serve Him by following his commandments. Beyond that, if we choose to participate in the governance of this nation, we owe it to God to investigate the candidates, learn their true heart. Seek to understand their motivation. If you cannot find a candidate that puts God first in their life, don’t vote.