How do you view Revelation?

Our youth group started studying the book of Revelation 3 weeks ago.  We’re going through the book verse by verse and comparing and contrasting four different viewpoints: Futurist, Preterist, Historic Pre-mill & dispensational (it’s wrong, but it’s also what so many Christians believe today).

Initially, everyone was decidedly in the Futurist camp, with those who had viewed the Left Behind series leaning towards a dispensational understanding.  But as we’ve finished up a general overview of the four systems and began looking at the first chapter there seems to be a predominant mix of the Historicist & Preterist view.

The Historicist view looks at the book of Revelation as a commentary on the church age. So in this view each day that passes by in Revelation is equal to a year of time on earth. So various events are reflective of actual church history — the swam of locusts from Revelation 9 was fulfilled with the rising of Islam.  The 1260 day (which is really 1260 years) reign of the beast is equated to the Papacy’s control over Europe. This is pretty well out of favor now but it was the view that most Reformers held including John Calvin, John Knox, & Martin Luther as well as later theologians such as Jonathan Edwards and Charles Spurgeon.

The Preterist view looks at the book of Revelation and finds that the majority of the prophecy was fulfilled by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.  Jesus’ prophecy in Mathew 24 that “this generation” would not all die until his coming in judgment is interpreted literally and locally.  This view requires accepting an earlier dating of the book of Revelation than many scholars allow for, but not so early that it becomes outlandish.

It’s interesting to see what will come out of this study. We’re doing a point / counterpoint style as we read through the book. The group is doing an admirable job arguing for all the positions as we think it through.  They’ve asked a number of times what position I hold with regard to eschatology.  My mind is fairly well made up on the issue, but I won’t spill.  I want them to think on the issue critically rather than going along with what I say.  But… I ask you the same question they’ve asked me.  Revelation. What do you think? How come?

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  • http://www.fingertoe.com/blog Josh Reighley

    I tend to buy the partial preterism argument. I do believe that the majority of he prophecy was about the end of the Jewish Age- and the Millennial (Still undecided on Post or Amil) age is the age to come. I think there are several dozen places where what most folks call “end times prophecies” where to happen within the lifetime of the hearers. Either Jesus was lying, He was wrong, or we misunderstood. I tend to believe the last answer is most likely to be true.

    As far as the dating of Rev – the argument that it is internally dated by referencing the kings of the Julian dynasty is pretty compelling “They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.” Rev 17:10. Depending on interpretation, this pretty firmly places the dating in Nero’s reign.

    With that said – there is a lot of Now but not yet fulfillment of prophecy. The fact that prophecies may have been fulfilled in the past doesn’t mean that they will not be further and more completely fulfilled in the future.

  • http://www.fingertoe.com joshr

    I tend to buy the partial preterism argument. I do believe that the majority of he prophecy was about the end of the Jewish Age- and the Millennial (Still undecided on Post or Amil) age is the age to come. I think there are several dozen places where what most folks call “end times prophecies” where to happen within the lifetime of the hearers. Either Jesus was lying, He was wrong, or we misunderstood. I tend to believe the last answer is most likely to be true.

    As far as the dating of Rev – the argument that it is internally dated by referencing the kings of the Julian dynasty is pretty compelling “They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.” Rev 17:10. Depending on interpretation, this pretty firmly places the dating in Nero’s reign.

    With that said – there is a lot of Now but not yet fulfillment of prophecy. The fact that prophecies may have been fulfilled in the past doesn’t mean that they will not be further and more completely fulfilled in the future.

  • http://jonspach.com/blogs/jonspach Jason

    Well stated, sir.

  • http://jonspach.com/blogs/jonspach Jason

    Well stated, sir.

  • tim prussic

    Having been influenced by Sproul, Ken (da man) Gentry, Keith Mathison, and Greg Bahnsen, I’m pretty much right there with Josh. Orthodox preterism seems the strongest to me (hyper-preterism is wackier than that mole game at the fair). I like to joke with futurists that they never need to *know* anything. All they do is point at the text and say “that’s gunna happen”!

    As to the dating of Revelation, have ya’ll come across _Before Jerusalem Fell_ by Ken Gentry? It is a very thorough treatment of that subject. It is a powerful, scholarly work that will make you rethink the ol’ 95-96 date. Oh yeah, also track down David Chilton’s preterist commentary on Revelation called _The Days of Vengeance_, which can be read for free at http://www.reformed-theology.org/ice/ – it will take few minutes to figure out how that site works, but there’s a TON of great stuff on there (for free!).

    Hope your Lord’s Day was great!

  • tim prussic

    Having been influenced by Sproul, Ken (da man) Gentry, Keith Mathison, and Greg Bahnsen, I’m pretty much right there with Josh. Orthodox preterism seems the strongest to me (hyper-preterism is wackier than that mole game at the fair). I like to joke with futurists that they never need to *know* anything. All they do is point at the text and say “that’s gunna happen”!

    As to the dating of Revelation, have ya’ll come across _Before Jerusalem Fell_ by Ken Gentry? It is a very thorough treatment of that subject. It is a powerful, scholarly work that will make you rethink the ol’ 95-96 date. Oh yeah, also track down David Chilton’s preterist commentary on Revelation called _The Days of Vengeance_, which can be read for free at http://www.reformed-theology.org/ice/ – it will take few minutes to figure out how that site works, but there’s a TON of great stuff on there (for free!).

    Hope your Lord’s Day was great!

  • http://jonspach.com/blogs/jonspach Jason

    @tim prussic

    The Lord’s Day was, indeed, great! Hope yours was as well.

    A friend lent us a DVD series by Gary DeMar on the subject that the wife & I have been going through. It’s been helpful.

    I mentioned that I was leaning amill & preterist at the last session meeting and it prompted one of the elders to say that my licensing examination would be “interesting”. Did you get grilled on eschatology much?

  • http://jonspach.com/blogs/jonspach Jason

    @tim prussic

    The Lord’s Day was, indeed, great! Hope yours was as well.

    A friend lent us a DVD series by Gary DeMar on the subject that the wife & I have been going through. It’s been helpful.

    I mentioned that I was leaning amill & preterist at the last session meeting and it prompted one of the elders to say that my licensing examination would be “interesting”. Did you get grilled on eschatology much?

  • tim prussic

    I didn’t get much grilling on eschatology – more on sacraments and ecclesiology (FV stuff). Everyone already knew (I think) where I stood. Not to mention the personal statement of faith that I read to the presbytery, which was clearly postmil. Our presbytery tends to glory in the eschatological freedom, so I wouldn’t worry too much. Just anticipate the obvious questions. After all, you heard how much they “grilled” Doug, right? :)

  • tim prussic

    I didn’t get much grilling on eschatology – more on sacraments and ecclesiology (FV stuff). Everyone already knew (I think) where I stood. Not to mention the personal statement of faith that I read to the presbytery, which was clearly postmil. Our presbytery tends to glory in the eschatological freedom, so I wouldn’t worry too much. Just anticipate the obvious questions. After all, you heard how much they “grilled” Doug, right? :)

  • tim prussic

    Also, happy birthday!!

  • tim prussic

    Also, happy birthday!!